jumping/escaping

[jules]

We have a 5 month old staff bitch. She has tried escaping from the garden through holes in the fence for a couple of months. These holes have been blocked and so she has now started jumping over the fences into neighbours gardens. Both have dogs and she seems to want to play with them. but then she has also jumped a fence to get to to other people walking past the house too!! Some fences are over a metre high. During the last few days she has even started climbing a tree !
She goes for long walks across fields and straight away on return she starts her escape plans. She has another staff to play with, (which she does do) a 14 month old staff (larger but nore sedate). She is a very sociable dog and loves playing.
How do we stop her from jumping - without erecting higher fences and ending up like a prison yard ?

[kuritsa18]

Does she try jumping over the fence when you leave or to get to you? Maybe this is some kind of separation anxiety and she gets anxious when left alone. This happened with a dog I used to have. He had separation anxiety and a couple times we put him in the back yard because it was nice outside when we were going somewhere. He escaped both times and we didn't leave him outside again because he was causing trouble with the neighbors.

I think some dogs are just prone to do that and it is just their personality or nature; some dogs are just really good escape artists Maybe she is bored too and is looking for some fun. If the other dog is not very playful then maybe she is looking for a friend Does she have toys to play with or something that will keep her busy that she can play with?

I would suggest for now to see if it might be separation anxiety and to try giving her lots of toys and things to play with to see if that will keep her from trying to find something else in another yard.

Once a behaviour is learned it will be hard to change esecially if you can't watch her to prevent her from doing it. I think the only way to stop her is to maybe tie her up on a long leash or build a dog run with really high fences. A fence that is a meter high is nothing. Some dogs can jump 12 feet high if they really want to escape. Also, when you are not home can you bring her inside or put her in her crate to prevent the jumping over the fence? What about taking her to doggy day care? Then she can play all day and be safe and you don't have to worry about her escaping and getting into trouble.

hope that helps a little

[jules]

hiya

Thank you for the reply, sasha is never left outside when we go out anywhere, she has plenty of toys indoor and outdoor, the other staff is 14 months old and they play alot together, she will jump the fence when we are in the garden with her!!! we could be playing games with them both i.e throwing them a ball to chase etc and all of a sudden she will just bolt for the fencing, being a staff and also only 5 months to be honest i didnt think it was in their nature to jump like a kangaroo!
the local council will not allow us to make a higher fence, its to do with other peoples sunlight in their gardens, but thank you anyway for taking the trouble to leave a message

[kuritsa18]

you should try contacting a few trainers in your area and see what their opinions are and if they have any suggestions.

That's weird for her to jump when you are there and playing together Could she be getting scared somehow and trying to getaway? Is there a trigger for her jumping? It might not be an obvious trigger but something is making her jump so try to pay attention really hard next time and try to remember what was happening the times before.

Maybe she is getting too excited when playing and then doing this. My dog has a similar problem. If she gets too/overly excited while playing then she starts running around really fast in cirlces around the back yard and we can't stop her; it almost becomes a game. We have been working on it though and it has been improving. When she starts getting this way we stop play right away and let her calm down and praise her a lot for calming down and being obedient. Some dogs have a hard time controlling their emotions or don't know how just like when kids are growing up and learning so we have to teach them to control themselves. I know that helped me a lot. Also, because we know she has this problem we keep her on the leash most of the time when we take her out untill she calms down. Then when she is calm we praise her and let her off. If she starts again she's on the leash. We also try to stay as calm as possible because dogs feed off our energy: if you get hyper they will too.

Just few more suggestions to try and help!

[jules]

Thanks to you or all your help concerning sasha, we know the reason why she is jumping, to get to other dogs, even though she plays a lot with our other dog or just wants to say "hello" to the neighbours when they are in the garden, or even to say hi to other people just walking past, as she is a staff and some people have given this breed a bad name. We have since we first got her, made sure she grew up to me sociable, i guess we have made her too friendly, she just loves people, and other dogs, cats anything and anyone, she will even look back at people in town whilst on the lead as if to say" why have you walked past me without saying hello?"

we cannot build the fence up any higher than we have as it is not allowed and we have taken the lower branches off the tree so she can no longer climb it to get into other peoples gardens, so we need to find a way to stop her from wanting to say hello all the time, we do try and keep her entertained whilst she is in the garden, to attract her attention but as soon as she hears a neighbour/dog in another garden she is off like a greyhound!

is this usual for a staff to jump so high? how can we stop her from doing this? as we cannot be in the garden with her all the time

[kuritsa18]

It is not unsual for a lot of breeds of dogs to jump very high heights so it not weird that your dog is doing it too; some dogs are just good jumpers or escape artists as I said before.

she obviously thinks it is ok and accepatble for her to do this which it isn't. I know that an effective way of training a dog to stop a behaviour is to set them up for failure. I have done this training technique with my dog which I learned from going to a trainer when we had issues with nipping. We would set her up to get her to try and nip and as soon as she tried we would correct her right away by giving a swift snap of a choke collar and saying no then when she stopped praised a lot. This really worked and now we don't have the problem. You don't need to use the same technique but the same concept.

Here's how I would do it:
Take sasha outside like anyother day but keep a leash on her (or even get one of those long leashes) and play like any other day. If she starts doing this behaviour(trying to jump/escape) get a hold of the leash right away and give it a quick snap while saying NOOO! (you don't need a choke collar for this) You could even have have someone walk by your yard which triggers her to want to jump over (setting her up) and then repeat the quick snap and Nooo! Praise a lot when she listens and doesn't jump so it re-enforces the good behaviour. You have to practice over and over again untill they get it and be consistant. I would also practice obedience with her. Even if you think she is already obedient practicing the training will only help especially if she stops listening to you when she gets into that state.

If you cannot watch her in the yard then don't let her out because allowing her to do it shows her she can get away with it and re-enforces the jumping/escaping.

the only other suggestions are to try contacting trainers in your area to see what their opinons are and if you have to leave her outside keep her tied up.

[prolibertate]

Jules, it sounds like your puppy needs some training, especially in the recall, e.g. when you say 'come' she immediately comes to you...this would help her to stop jumping over the fence when you're playing. Also, she may need more exercise than she's currently getting - a tired dog is a good dog A training class would also help teach you how to get her to want to obey you when there are distractions around. It would also help her listen to you when people or other animals go by.

As far as when you're not there, you may simply have to not leave her in the yard alone, at least until you get her to learn through training that she isn't to jump the fence anymore. It can be done; you simply need to find a good trainer. Until then, there are several books by Jan Fennel, Victoria Stillwell, Patricia McConnell and Jean Donaldson that will help you learn more about how to get your dog to want to listen to you. Fennel's DVD and boosk are excellent, as are Stilwell's; they both live in the UK and have TV and radio shows.

Jan Fennell the Dog Listener & Amichien Bonding - Dog Training
Official Victoria Stilwell Website - author & host of 'It's Me or the Dog'


I can't agree that using a choke collar or snapping the leash is an appropriate way to train one's dog; if one's doesn't know how to use a choke chain (and most people and too many trainers don't know how to use it safely) or do it right, it can border on abuse of the dog and it can harm them. Positive reinforcement methods always work well, and quickly. Also, harsh words aren't going to help your dog want to listen to you...harsh words will only make your dog afraid of you, and a fearful dog isn't one that wants to please you.

The trick is to always remain calm when teaching your dog; if you get excited, they get excited. the main time you want to get excited is when teaching the recall command...every time you say 'come' you want to be happy, upbeat, excited, so your dog wants to come to you...and then you treat them, slowly phasing out to praises and pats over time, so that every time you ask your dog to come, they know it's a wonderful experience.

[kuritsa18]

I wasn't suggesting using a choke collar I was explaining the setting up technique taught to me by a trainer. A choke collar is not abusive if used in an appropriate manner and in the propper way! I would recommend going to a trainer to show you the propper way. I said you do not need to use one for this I was just explaining the technique and I would never recommend using one while a dog is trying to run or jump over somehting because then that would be missuse of the collar. I do stand by what I said and think it would be an effective way to teach a dog not to jump because you have to catch them doing it to teach them it was bad and you need to have control over your dog to stop it and keeping her on a leash would accomplish that. You don't want to yank the leash so hard that you hurt her just a quick pull to stop the behaviour and teach her that was wrong. Then when she stops reward lavishly so she knows that was good.

I don't know where you got harsh words from??? If saying no to your dog is considered harsh words then that is crazy. A smart dog can tell the difference and it is more about tone than words. A dog is sensitive to the tone of voice you use so you don't have to go crazy and yell or anything but using a lower firmer tone will get the message through to a dog. Saying no to your dog and using a firm voice is NOT going to make your dog fearful of you! that's just rediculous!

I don't think reading books is going to help. Reading on dog behaviour can be informative but I think taking your dog to a trainer to work with it in real life would be more helpful and useful.

[prolibertate]

Kuritsa18, I'm not sure why you appear to be taking whatever I say as an attack on you or your comments. I'm simply giving my opinion based on my own experiences and knowledge.

Reading about training, behavior, psychology, attending courses, etc. are some of the main things most good, experienced trainers recommend when one is learning to be a trainer. You can't go get experience with actual dogs without some knowledge behind you first...that would be doing a disservice to those dogs and their guardians, and could cause more harm than not. Besides working with a trainer to train my dogs, I'm also working with a trainer to become a trainer, in addition to getting a degree in behavioral psychology.

Not one trainer I know will use a choke collar anymore, especially when it's so easy to train a dog to not jump using positive methods such as ignoring them and only petting them after they sit, or taking them out of the room when they jump. I do know the safe way to use a choke collar; I simply prefer to not use them, as positive methods have always worked for me, including with dogs that were 120 lbs. or more.

As far as saying 'no' to a dog, some people say it so much that the poor dog must think it's his name! Rewarding good behavior and ignoring bad behavior helps to ensure that the dog repeats the good behavior and ends the bad...it's as simple as that. Unfortunately, some people simply don't make the time, or have the patience, to train using positive methods; they want quick fixes...and cases like that make me wonder why they got a dog in the first place.

[kuritsa18]

I take it personally because your are attacking what people say because you think differntly and go so far as to say it is cruel, mean or abusive.

I was never suggesting for the person to use a choke collar so there was no need to make comments about it being abusive or misstreatment of a dog. I have seen many people use them and they are not abusive at all if used in the propper manner. I have used one for training my dog in certain situations and there has been no problems and it has actually been a very useful tool along with possitive re-enforcement. This has worked for me so I don't see the problem passing it along to other people in the right case. A collar can be used in a possitive re-enforecment training method; it is just another tool people can use to assit in the training process.

The techniques you talk about of ignoring and only rewarding possitive beahviour I have used and they have worked but for some things they did not work and it was only after taking my dog to a trainer and using a different appraoch did things change for the better.

Everyone has had somehting that has worked really well for them and things that have not worked at all so it is better not make judgments so fast and say that that way is mean and this way is the best.